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 Things needed to be said

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Fr0zen
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PostSubject: Things needed to be said   Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:08 am

First off I would like to thank all who have helped in the past with Ghosts clan wars. We made it very far, further than we should have as a casual clan.

Secondly, moving forward there will be no clan wars that we will actively participate in for AW. It is NOT what MG was all about. We are NOT a competitive clan. We are based on the main principle of playing casually when we get a chance to play.

3rd, If a member in a leadership position does not request to be cut from a roster, they will NOT be removed unless it is voted on between ALL leaders, NOT members.

I tried to be fair to those who wanted to continue on to do Ghosts clan wars but members are coming to me demanding changes. While I was trying to be fair, more and more demands were asked. I made a couple changes based on what was asked, but from now on, changes will be voted on between LEADERS. If some members dont like how we do things, then im sure there are clans out there that have leaders that will allow members to boss them around but this is not one of them. Like I said, I was trying to be fair but now a member is pushing it. I will not mention which member but they know who they are.

I did not want to have to make this post but I am being pushed to the limit. Sorry to those who this dont pertain to.

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PostSubject: Re: Things needed to be said   Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:35 am

I agree with all of that. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Things needed to be said   Tue Jul 15, 2014 6:44 am

Frozen, we aren't tying to boss you around, we are just asking for a few, imo, very reasonable changes. I appreciate that you started making cuts, but honestly it's not going to be enough.

I know the premise of the clan is casual gaming, but those of us who are still playing Ghosts would like to be more competitive and members/leaders on the roster who aren't playing Ghosts are just weighing us down for no reason. At around the size we are at now or smaller, every member matters because the brackets are so close together. Having even one person inactive can move us up an entire bracket and ruin the chance of winning for everyone.

Anyone can "play casually when they get a chance to play" without being on the clan roster. There is simply no reason for people to be on the ghosts roster who are not playing the game; leadership included. You have said yourself many times that we are not just a ghosts clan, but a clan that spans across many games so I don't see why it's necessary to have inactive leadership on the roster.

I understand that it's probably difficult to pass on leadership (Commander) to someone else, but it's for the good of the ghosts clan. Without an active leader our players will be forced to go elsewhere and the ghosts clan will die. I know a handful of us have been talking about leaving but thats really not what we want to do. There are basically two paths from here; you can either remain the leader and go down with the ship or you can pass the torch and we can keep going strong.

I would like to reiterate that neither I, nor any of the other active members have anything against you personally, it's just a matter of logistics. If in the future we need someone cut or if we need to be opted into diamond it just doesn't make any sense for us to talk about it, tell our "Ghosts sub-section leader", have them tell you, and have you do it when you get the time. That's unnecessarily slow and complicated and sometimes things need to happen quickly to make roster locks and other deadlines.

Perhaps you could explain why you feel the need to remain commander? It seems to me, based on your response times and tendency to delegate ghosts related tasks, that you don't really want to be messing with this stuff anymore anyways. I can't imagine why you'd want to be bothered with day to day clan maintenance for a game you haven't played in 7 months. (7 months? That can't be right, lol. But that's what my xbox says...)

I think we mutually decided that we would stick around for the upcoming war to see what the turnout really is and reevaluate afterwards. In the meantime I'd really love to open up a dialogue about this and see where you stand given a little time to think on it and talk about it calmly.
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PostSubject: Re: Things needed to be said   Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:11 pm

Malikk wrote:
Frozen, we aren't tying to boss you around, we are just asking for a few, imo, very reasonable changes. I appreciate that you started making cuts, but honestly it's not going to be enough.

Reasonable changes...we said months ago that we will not do any more cuts but I still did cuts for your group that is still playing Ghosts. Not only that, but I made sure Batman knows his role as CoD leader. That was all that was asked, cuts and an active leader and now that those 2 things were done, you want more.

Malikk wrote:
I know the premise of the clan is casual gaming, but those of us who are still playing Ghosts would like to be more competitive and members/leaders on the roster who aren't playing Ghosts are just weighing us down for no reason. At around the size we are at now or smaller, every member matters because the brackets are so close together. Having even one person inactive can move us up an entire bracket and ruin the chance of winning for everyone.

There is only 1 leader on the current roster after last nights cuts that are inactive as in not playing Ghosts. BUT, if you all look, im damn near online 18 hours a day. I am always available to fill a spot if needed (tho it would have to be on the X1 as I lent my 360 copy to Urban), answer a msg, whatever anyone in the clan needs. Brackets go up every 5-10 members, we are at 19 so if anything, we have a 4 member advantage.

Malikk wrote:
Anyone can "play casually when they get a chance to play" without being on the clan roster. There is simply no reason for people to be on the ghosts roster who are not playing the game; leadership included. You have said yourself many times that we are not just a ghosts clan, but a clan that spans across many games so I don't see why it's necessary to have inactive leadership on the roster.

Yes, we are a clan that spans many games, BUT CoD is our MAIN game. Also, there are members on the current roster that requested to stay as they will be able to play in the next few clan wars. I sent out a msg asking who all wanted to play clan wars and those who have sent me a response saying they will play, are staying. I have also said that if needed, I will
fill a spot.

Malikk wrote:
I understand that it's probably difficult to pass on leadership
(Commander) to someone else, but it's for the good of the ghosts clan. Without an active leader our players will be forced to go elsewhere and the ghosts clan will die. I know a handful of us have been talking about leaving but thats really not what we want to do. There are basically two paths from here; you can either remain the leader and go down with the ship or you can pass the torch and we can keep going
strong.

Yes there are 2 paths I can go right now but it isnt the paths you are speaking of. I could leave it the way it is now at 19 members on the Ghosts roster and more members spread across multiple games, or watch members leave and go on with MG as it has always been. Im only saying this like that because I feel like the past few days I have been in hostage negotiations with terrorists. I hate to put it that way but its the way I feel. I feel that nothing I do is going to be good enough for you guys but at the end of the day, I founded this clan and will not be going anywhere. Im not saying I want you all to leave and start a new clan because I dont, but if thats what it comes down to, at the end of the day, MG will still be here.

Malikk wrote:
I would like to reiterate that neither I, nor any of the other active members have anything against you personally, it's just a matter of logistics. If in the future we need someone cut or if we need to be opted into diamond it just doesn't make any sense for us to talk about it, tell our "Ghosts sub-section leader", have them tell you, and have you do it when you get the time. That's unnecessarily slow and complicated and sometimes things need to happen quickly to make roster locks and
other deadlines.

That is called chain of command, every clan that is successful has one, and MG has one as well. This is why we have multiple leaders. Now that we are doing clan wars again, we will start up leader meetings again for the leaders still involved with Ghosts. Meetings will take place the saturday after a clan war, 9PM EST. This way things that need to get done, will get done a week before a clan war.


Malikk wrote:
Perhaps you could explain why you feel the need to remain commander? It seems to me, based on your response times and tendency to delegate ghosts related tasks, that you don't really want to be messing with this stuff anymore anyways. I can't imagine why you'd want to be bothered with day to day clan maintenance for a game you haven't played in 7 months. (7 months? That can't be right, lol. But that's what my xbox says...)

Lets see, I have put alot of time into what I have done for the Ghosts clan and as far as response times...I have a family and right now it is summer vacation for my kids so sometimes I cant respond so quickly, but I did get everything done before the cutoff for this clan war so you cant really say I didnt do it. I could have just said were not doing any more cuts like I did months ago but still did them. You might not know what cutting members does for a clan, but it does more negative than good. Everytime I have had to make a cut because someone was inactive, we would lose the member all together. As of now, there will be NO more cuts UNLESS a member requests to be cut from the roster. MG won the 1st few clan wars with only 25 members on the roster and about 10 didnt even play. So I have full confidence that a roster of 19 with maybe 1-2 inactive could still win.

Malikk wrote:
I think we mutually decided that we would stick around for the upcoming war to see what the turnout really is and reevaluate afterwards. In the meantime I'd really love to open up a dialogue about this and see where you stand given a little time to think on it and talk about it calmly.

Thats fine, I wish you all good luck on this upcoming clan war. I think the members that are on the roster now are our best players and have full confidence that you all will win with zero problems.

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PostSubject: Re: Things needed to be said   Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:09 pm

Fr0zen wrote:
Reasonable changes...we said months ago that we will not do any more cuts but I still did cuts for your group that is still playing Ghosts. Not only that, but I made sure Batman knows his role as CoD leader. That was all that was asked, cuts and an active leader and now that those 2 things were done, you want more.

We're not asking for anything different than we did originally. In my post from June 20th I said, "I just want to trim out the people who just straight up aren't playing the game", which is exactly what we are still asking for.

Fr0zen wrote:
Brackets go up every 5-10 members, we are at 19 so if anything, we have a 4 member advantage.

You can look at the bracket sizes here.
http://community.callofduty.com/thread/200846811

Like a said in my last post, at 20 members or lower every 1-2 members can move us a whole bracket.

Fr0zen wrote:
MG won the 1st few clan wars with only 25 members on the roster and about 10 didnt even play. So I have full confidence that a roster of 19 with maybe 1-2 inactive could still win.

I'm sure that's true while we are in Bronze division playing against 7 inactive clans, but most of the people I've talked to want to opt into diamond.

Fr0zen wrote:
Yes, we are a clan that spans many games, BUT CoD is our MAIN game. Also, there are members on the current roster that requested to stay as they will be able to play in the next few clan wars. I sent out a msg asking who all wanted to play clan wars and those who have sent me a response saying they will play, are staying.

I haven't seen the response from people when you asked, that's why we are waiting it out one war to see what actually happens.

Fr0zen wrote:
but I did get everything done before the cutoff for this clan war so you cant really say I didnt do it.

Yes, but it took multiple members asking multiple times repeatedly since I started that thread on June 14th to finally get the ball rolling on this and now its the day of the roster lock and we are still discussing things, which is exactly the kind of slowness and inefficiency of the "chain of command" that I was talking about. (Yes, it took over a month to get any kind of action taken)

On June 29th, I wrote:
So, we've got a little time but I'd really like to use it to make sure we're extra ready for diamond when it comes around.

If we make the cuts and get everything setup now it will give people time to realize if we've made a mistake and will give people the chance to join back in if they want, rather than cutting unresponsive people 2 seconds before the roster lock. Also it would just be good in general for everyone who's playing to get used to the new roster and possibly new leadership.

Exactly what I was trying to avoid happened because the leadership was inactive and slow, which is why we need an active player as Commander; slapping an unofficial title on Batman doesn't solve anything at all.

Fr0zen wrote:
Meetings will take place the saturday after a clan war, 9PM EST. This way things that need to get done, will get done a week before a clan war.

Your idea of good, active leadership is to have a meeting that will allow us to get a few things done every two weeks?

Fr0zen wrote:
You might not know what cutting members does for a clan, but it does more negative than good. Everytime I have had to make a cut because someone was inactive, we would lose the member all together

You're letting the illusion of the inactive member numbers get the better of you. When you look at the roster and you see 32, thats not really how many members we had; You lost those members when they went inactive, not when you cut them. Cutting them just removes the deadweight thats slowing the rest of us down.
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PostSubject: Re: Things needed to be said   Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:34 pm

I'm a terrorst holding you hostage? Oh brother.
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PostSubject: Re: Things needed to be said   Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:36 pm

My fault for being persistent on getting stuff done on time. We barely made the roster lock this time as it is. Like malikk said, its just a slow process and such.

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PostSubject: Re: Things needed to be said   Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:55 pm

well you guys can quit going off on eric now.....I'M IN CHARGE OF GHOSTS , so all problems will be brought to myself,batman or even connie(avoided faun) if we're both busy.... if you dont like my way ,there's always the highway !!!!! OH AND I WILL BE PLAYING
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PostSubject: Re: Things needed to be said   Tue Jul 15, 2014 6:20 pm

I really dont feel like taking another 2 hours out of my day copying and editing a response so my responses will be in red.

Malikk wrote:
Fr0zen wrote:
Reasonable changes...we said months ago that we will not do any more cuts but I still did cuts for your group that is still playing Ghosts. Not only that, but I made sure Batman knows his role as CoD leader. That was all that was asked, cuts and an active leader and now that those 2 things were done, you want more.

We're not asking for anything different than we did originally. In my post from June 20th I said, "I just want to trim out the people who just straight up aren't playing the game", which is exactly what we are still asking for.

Which is what you got and now there is still an all day discussion on it

Fr0zen wrote:
Brackets go up every 5-10 members, we are at 19 so if anything, we have a 4 member advantage.

You can look at the bracket sizes here.
http://community.callofduty.com/thread/200846811

Like a said in my last post, at 20 members or lower every 1-2 members can move us a whole bracket.

Fr0zen wrote:
MG won the 1st few clan wars with only 25 members on the roster and about 10 didnt even play. So I have full confidence that a roster of 19 with maybe 1-2 inactive could still win.

I'm sure that's true while we are in Bronze division playing against 7 inactive clans, but most of the people I've talked to want to opt into diamond.

4 out of the 7 clans we played were not inactive. Besides anyone at this point not in diamond besides MG will most likely lose anyway.

Fr0zen wrote:
Yes, we are a clan that spans many games, BUT CoD is our MAIN game. Also, there are members on the current roster that requested to stay as they will be able to play in the next few clan wars. I sent out a msg asking who all wanted to play clan wars and those who have sent me a response saying they will play, are staying.

I haven't seen the response from people when you asked, that's why we are waiting it out one war to see what actually happens.

That is because I asked on XBL, not on the forums as these forums are barely used by members.

Fr0zen wrote:
but I did get everything done before the cutoff for this clan war so you cant really say I didnt do it.

Yes, but it took multiple members asking multiple times repeatedly since I started that thread on June 14th to finally get the ball rolling on this and now its the day of the roster lock and we are still discussing things, which is exactly the kind of slowness and inefficiency of the "chain of command" that I was talking about. (Yes, it took over a month to get any kind of action taken)

Im sorry for having a life outside of my xbox, yes my xbox may be on alot of the time, but I am not always there. Plus it is now summertime and have family functions to attend to.

On June 29th, I wrote:
So, we've got a little time but I'd really like to use it to make sure we're extra ready for diamond when it comes around.

If we make the cuts and get everything setup now it will give people time to realize if we've made a mistake and will give people the chance to join back in if they want, rather than cutting unresponsive people 2 seconds before the roster lock. Also it would just be good in general for everyone who's playing to get used to the new roster and possibly new leadership.

Exactly what I was trying to avoid happened because the leadership was inactive and slow, which is why we need an active player as Commander; slapping an unofficial title on Batman doesn't solve anything at all.

Once again, xbox is not my life, I have a family to take care of.
Batmans title is NOT unofficial, it was voted on by the leaders.


Fr0zen wrote:
Meetings will take place the saturday after a clan war, 9PM EST. This way things that need to get done, will get done a week before a clan war.

Your idea of good, active leadership is to have a meeting that will allow us to get a few things done every two weeks?

Better than not have any meetings and not get anything done for a competetive division that we originally didnt even want. We are a casual clan but at least we have a competetive division so you all can play in which you would like to play.

Fr0zen wrote:
You might not know what cutting members does for a clan, but it does more negative than good. Everytime I have had to make a cut because someone was inactive, we would lose the member all together

You're letting the illusion of the inactive member numbers get the better of you. When you look at the roster and you see 32, thats not really how many members we had; You lost those members when they went inactive, not when you cut them. Cutting them just removes the deadweight thats slowing the rest of us down.

Actually im not, we had a player base at an upwards of 75 players, but because we had to keep cutting members to make the clan war players happy, we are now down to 30 members. And maybe even less after last nights cuts once members get online and see they dont have anything they worked hard to earn. One member I had to cut last night I will tell you put in over 20 hours in 1 day for a clan war and went inactive because CoD burnt him out. How would you all feel if you put in all that work, just to find one day that you have nothing that you earned? You have to think of other peoples feelings about how hard everyone has played to earn some of the perks of being in a clan.

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PostSubject: Re: Things needed to be said   Tue Jul 15, 2014 6:22 pm

dr galactica wrote:
I'm a terrorst holding you hostage? Oh brother.

Its just the way it seems, "make it better for the few of us playing or we will leave and make a new clan"

Anyone remember Metric Jesus and Shermars? They tried the same thing.

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PostSubject: Re: Things needed to be said   Tue Jul 15, 2014 6:24 pm

jagerbomb wrote:
well you guys can quit going off on eric now.....I'M IN CHARGE OF GHOSTS , so all problems will be brought to myself,batman or even connie(avoided faun) if we're both busy.... if you dont like my way ,there's always the highway !!!!! OH AND I WILL BE PLAYING

Both Urban AND Faun WILL be playing, so I would like to know they are BOTH being invited to games and XBL parties. I will know if they are not invited.

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PostSubject: Re: Things needed to be said   Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:49 am

The thing about metric and shermar was way worse because we were all active. We don't have even half the actives now. My two cents
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PostSubject: Re: Things needed to be said   Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:22 am

Alright this conversation is over ! we ARE doing clan wars and im looking into wether or not we can do diamond or if we must work back up to it
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PostSubject: Re: Things needed to be said   Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:50 pm

Well, it is now almost 7PM EST, 4 hours after clan wars has started and yet, only 2 are online. You guys all pushed for clan wars, I was pretty much done with them but game you guys what you wanted so you all could do clan wars....no more comments from me on you guys not playing....for now.

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PostSubject: Re: Things needed to be said   Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:54 pm

Lots more to come from me though seeing i stood up for peoples rights to do clan wars !!!
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PostSubject: Re: Things needed to be said   Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:57 pm

Actually I got on earlier to see if I could help expecting people on but no one around. Won there games and got off.

Sucks not have red clan tag I worked so hard for.

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PostSubject: Re: Things needed to be said   Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:00 pm

Well that wasnt my call , connie and i do miss playing with ya
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PostSubject: Re: Things needed to be said   Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:09 pm

Well, if things dont go well for this clan war for those who said they will be on, I will be adding everyone back to the roster that was on previously and not caring because I feel that I did what I could that was within my means and it was all for nothing and those who worked hard in past clan wars are left now with nothing. Which I do feel awful for.

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PostSubject: Re: Things needed to be said   Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:05 pm

I hopped on again tonight frozen and don't see to many members... Think we all just got burnt on ghosts. I welcome u lot to join with me on bf4
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PostSubject: Re: Things needed to be said   Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:22 am

xXx Two3 xXx wrote:
I hopped on again tonight frozen and don't see to many members... Think we all just got burnt on ghosts. I welcome u lot to join with me on bf4

Thats exactly what happened to me, I got so burnt out that even now months later i just dont want to play Ghosts. Id love to join u on BF4 but everytime I see ur name online its always on netflix lol anytime u see my name online and ur on BF, feel free to send me a msg and ill join ya on BF4.

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